From the Mail Box - Healing from Adventism

What follows are some emails from the mail box of lastdisciple.com. They are posted for healing of former adventists, for those who are coming out of Adventism and are struggling with questions, emotional pain, and loneliness. The problems seems to run along lines that are all too familiar to those of us who made the transition. This page is created with a prayer that Christ's body may be healed, that we may move away from teachings and churches that serve only to enslave and hurt. If you hurt because of adventist bondage, you are not alone! Read on.

The Son will make you free, and you will be free indeed. His blood guarantees that.

If you would like your story posted, contact me below. The answers to questions asked in these emails are scattered through my web site.

"Sorry, forgot to ask in my last e-mail--this prophecy seminar will end, but then they are going to have groups meeting for bible studies to go through the book of Daniel. I had thought it would be a good idea to go and learn some more, but now maybe I shouldn't? Part of me thinks I'm smart enough to get out if it's wrong, but part of me thinks I don't know enough to get out if it's wrong. One thing I did think was that I thought Jesus died on the cross to do away with a lot of the laws--I might not be right about that. All I know is that the seminar took such a turn focusing on the law, that I thought it made what Jesus did seem irrelevant. Now think I think about it, and have written this out, I know I shouldn't go. I wouldn't be on here trying to figure out what was wrong with them if it was the right thing for me to do....but then they would say that is just Satan trying to keep me from knowing the truth."

I want to commend you on your website and the wealth of information that is there on the SDAs.

WOW! I really enjoy reading the material. I have noticed that a lot of the material is scanned in. What I would like to know is what sources did you use? And how can I get a copy of all the material in book form. I would appreciate your help. I am presently in the process of existing the SDA church. Between studying the Bible for myself and reading other former SDAs websites, I am actually able to study myself out completely. I am so thoroughly disappointed with the SDA church and how they too lift scriptures out of context to develop certain doctrines. Oh, what a mess. I am so looking forward to being with a bible-believing congregation that teaches God's Word in context.

"I read your $10,000 challenge and Sydney Cleveland's $1,000 challenge. I can assure you your money is secure.

I grew up an SDA and am about 5th generation, recently left and was told by a family member that I was being misled. My brother who completely left does not face that type of judgment and condemnation. I told this family member that I was reading the Bible and was not being mislead. I did say I was reading other books like Sydney's, but that I was comparing them to the Bible and was not being misled. Is there some response to those who feel that my revelations about faith in Christ being the only thing necessary for salvation are not me being misled? It is sad that they are all so buried in Ellen White, and I really would like my family strain to stop. But I am thankful every day that I left the SDA church. I now attend the Church of God 7Th Day.

"Dear Radek Dobias, I greet you in the precious name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We are a group of people in Uganda who have also been expelled from SDA church because of telling the church that sincerely it has gone astray . The purpose of this mail therefore is to request you to be in touch with us such that we continue to share the word of God. My dear brother I encourage to remain strong in our for we are many this way who have discovered falsehood of SDA. Please feel free to com municate. God bless you in the great commission.

"There were many years when I said that I would never give up on Adventism but somehow in late 1979 when the Desmond Ford PUC Form tape came to me, along with other information that started to circulate in that time frame, I felt a strong leading of the Holy Spirit to re-think my theology of the past 29 years. All the years I was an Adventist I did have unanswered questions, especially about the sabbath, the law, and the state of the dead. I was an Ellen White addict for 29 years and probably few Adventists have been as steeped in her writings as I was. That made it all the easier for me to set her aside finally for she plainly taught values such as fairness, open-mindedness, willingness to change, etc., and so I was actually being loyal to a lot of her teachings when I set her aside. As far as the sabbath is concerned, there is no basis whatsoever for making the Saturday/Sabbath a test of faith or salvation.

I wish (another person's name) well in her search for truth. She will find, as many of us have, that the gospel rest in Jesus Christ and His finished work is the N.T. sabbath rest, not a test over a day of the week.

I appreciate your site as it reaches out to SDAs in search for the truth. I am a former Adventist as well and God has laid on my heart to create a website, reaching out to Adventists worldwide. You may be interested in placing reciprocal links to our sites. Come and visit us at the Adventist Out reach Center located at http://www.sabbaths.org

"May I encourage you to "Look, the Lamb of God!" (John 1:36). He is the One who"will give you rest." (Matt 11:28)

"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgi ving, let your request be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." Phil 4:6,7"

"I was brought into the SDA religion by my now wife who was raised on it. I ... began finding out all this other info about the church. I admit I did not research the church before I became a member. My wife and I both Love the Lord, but I have told her I don't believe E White was a prophet. What books would you recommend I can give to my wife to help me open her eyes to what is really going on in the SDA movement. I've only been an SDA for a year so she thinks that I haven't learned enough about the religion to make that determination. I know my love for the Lord is telling my heart what they believe isn't right.

"I have family members that have fallen into this cult and pretty much live in the SDA world excluding other family members. When confronted with the Bible quotes that I have found that opposes their views I get told that I have misinterpreted the Bible. For instance I showed them in the Bible where Jesus himself said that nothing we can eat can cause us to sin. I was told that this was a misinterpertation on Jesus. I would like to expose this cult to them but I do not know enough about the religion. What are the top biblical answers which they can not support. I read through your site and it seems as though the main one that you have written about is very complex. If you were to have 10-15 minutes to give them a list of questions to answer what would they be. Do you have any experience in reversing the brain washing of family members or friends? Please let me know

I will give you an account of my search in the hope that you can help me. I was born into a Catholic family and was bought up strictly adhering to the Catholic faith - the rest of my family are still devout Catholics. I was blessed (at times I have felt it was a curse) with an enquiring and analytical mind. I saw much to be questioned in the Catholic church so ceased attending church at about 19 /20 years of age. I then didn't know if I believed in God at all - I figured most people believed in God because they were afraid to face death as the end of existence. When I was in my late 30's I started to wonder if there really was a God so I started studying, firstly I studied encyclopedias etc. and discovered that most religions had a creation story and a worldwide flood story so I figured that they must have had a common root. Then I figure d that if there was a God the truth of that God would be somewhere that man could not corrupt so this led me to the Bible. I bought myself a Bible and started to learn. I have spent years going from one religion to another trying to find God's church - at last I came to the conclusion that I should be keeping the Sabbath so I started to attend the SDA church in my area. I did a Bible study with the pastor and decided it was probably the closest church to the truth that I would find. I was baptised into the SDA church almost 2 years ago now but when I was baptised I made it conditional on the fact that I did not have to accept Ellen White as a prophet and I did not have to accept any of her writings. (I have based my entire Christian beliefs on Bible and Bible only and NOTHING will move me from this belief). The pastor reluctantly agreed and I was baptised. He said I would eventually come to accept Ellen White. I have not - as a matter of fact whenever I hear the preacher at out Sabbath service quote from her writings (almost every service) the hairs on the back of my neck (literally) stand on end!! I have studied some of her books but when I questioned why we needed to have her "insight" in interpreting the Bible I was told it was "added light" on the scriptures for God's chosen people to help us understand the Scripture. I can't accept this. I feel the accounts of Biblical stories Ellen White gives is blatently adding to Scripture and a lot of it, I feel, is just plain nonsense and of no value!! I do not believe the investigative judgement and, altho' Ellen White has a lot of good things to say, I do not believe her writings are the Spirit of Prophesy. I think it's blasphemous to claim this title. The church pastor knows exactly how I feel on these subjects but allows me to attend church as long as I don't tell others of my beliefs. My problem is I don't know if it's right of me to continue attending this church, it there was an alternative in my town I wouldn't attend but all the other churches keep Sunday as the Sabbath. I feel oppressed and burdened by the SDA church (once I felt sure of my salvation - now I feel that I'm not living up to the high standards of the SDA's) and now don't know where to turn. There's many wonderful people in the church, some of them have become my good friends I admire the pastor very much as one of the Godliest men I have ever met but I fear they are all deceived. If I do leave the church I want to make it clear to everyone why I am leaving.

Can you help with advice on what to do? Maybe I should mention that I am an Australian.

"As an ex-Adventist (who still goes to church on Saturday, because my wife is an Adventist), I find that upon study of the Scripture, very little of the doctrine holds up. Luckily, the church we attend is not mired down in "EGW" as much as others I have seen. In a recent sermon, the pastor stated quite boldly that tithing won't save you, keeping the sabbath won't save you, eating only clean foods won't save you, but only a close, loving relationship with Jesus will save you. I am sure that there were a few eyebrows being raised at some of these statements, as we do have some in the congregation who seem to hold EGW above the Bible. There was one sermon done by a church member which essentially challenged people that if they didn't believe that EGW was a prophet, they should not be in the church. It is interesting that the Bible studies that my wife took through the mail never mentioned EGW, and only mentioned near the end that they were published by the SDA church. My favorite book for dispelling a lot of the doctrine is Romans -- many of the verses clearly go against the doctrines. There are numerous other verses in numerous books throughout the Bible, including Jeremiah 23:30 "Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbor." Hmmm, could this be about plagiarism? I actually prefer the Contemporary English Version: "These unfaithful prophets claim I give them their dreams, but it isn't true. I didn't choose them to be my prophets, and yet they babble on and on, speaking in my name, while stealing words fro m each other. And when my people hear these liars, they are led astray instead of being helped. So I warn you that I am now the enemy of these prophets. I, the LORD, have spoken." It seems quite clear to me -- if a person claims to be a prophet, yet uses the words of others claiming those words to be from the Lord, the Lord is not on their side.

Keep up the good work -- it is only through study of the word that a close, personal and loving relationship with Jesus and God can be established. When that study goes against what we have been led to believe, we must investigate further to verify that our interpretations are correct. If this further investigation shows that our beliefs are incorrect, we then must either change our beliefs or go against what is written in the Bible. It is often a painful experience."

"I am speechless. I almost can't believe you stood up for what you did, and were TRANSPARENT in stating the truth --wow, that is brave!!! I commend you b/c i too love SDA friends, and YOU REALLY MADE MY DAY, by letting me know I AM NOT ALONE--i am viewed as an extremist by people in cults and who believe in false teachings and get upset when i tell them the truth. PLEASE READ AND REMEMBER THIS!!!**********: KEEP BEING AS HARD AS YOU ARE, B/C JESUS WAS "THE HARDEST THAT EXISTS" IN JOHN 8, WHEN HE TOLD PEOPLE THEY WERE CHILDREN OF SATAN, AND SATAN-FOLLOWERS, AND THEY DID SATANIC THINGS. NEVER GO EASY ON ****ATTACKS ON THE *ONLY****** GOSPEL WHICH CAN SAVE!!!!!!! GREAT JOB!!! I AM JUST BLOWN AWAY IN YOUR EXTREME GODLINESS AND GENTLENESS AND LOVE AND WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE AND PATIENCE THAT YOU SHOWED IN YOUR RESPONSES. GOD BLESS YOU SO MUCH-WILL PRAY FOR YOU TOO!

"Hi, I'm John and in 1990 I began my mental move out of Adventism. Over the last 30 years I've devoted my life to the study of that thought. I still study the issues, but from a different perspective, I want to open the eyes of friends who have no joy or peace and who do not know the gospel as they are totally committed to 1844. My question to you is: What kind of booklet is needed at this time. I don't want to repeat the good work already done by others. What questions need to be explained? Thanks if you can help."

"...your web site is really enlightening to me. My wife is a SDA from having been educated in a secondary school in Mexico. I however came out of a Full Gospel Church. I had questions in our old church in San Diego but never had any real problems as our bible studies were by others and not EGW. We moved to Mtn. Home AR. two years ago and attend the local DEAD church here. The first thing I heard by the Sabbath School Teachers was, " And Ellen White Says." I just cannot handle the blind ignorance of the bad teaching. I do raise questions and am told that EGW was proved a prophet by the 12 step test. Whatever that is, I missed that lesson, maybe for the better. But could you help me try and understand the mentality of these people to know what the 12 steps are? I really enjoy your site and will appreciate any help you can share.

I am an ex-sda married to a current sda. The Sabbath issue is driving me crazy. Adventists don't seem to understand that Jesus is our Sabbath rest. We should rest in him and not a "shadow or type". This legalism stuff is driving me out of my mind. I am supposed to be the head of my family, but my wife will not relent.

"Radek, I read your testimony about your experience coming out again, and I tell you when I was a kid, I remember those kind of fights about who is going to be the first elder, the church divided between two people, and all that kind of stuff you experienced in the reform church not too long ago. That was when I was a kid then. I can see that the reformed church kept it for a long time, because it got a bit easier later. The strict EGW and vegetarians, their families broken up, marriages in a sad state, I saw it all then and I am sorry but it was on the account of the "special messages " of EGW. I am sorry, but that's how it was. I remember a lot of it. Fortunately my mother had enough common sense not to push it on me or even get me involved. She was intelligent enough to spare me all that mess. Had there been a true Gospel preached then, maybe we wouldn't have been estranged from our relatives esp. my grandmother, she hated the church. God knows all . I can again relate to your experience, when I got free of this baggage it is a pleasure not to gossip, turn the TV off when you feel it is not beneficial and so on. Before, I tried to make myself not to do this but gossiped anyways because it kind of felt good. You know what I mean. Now it is a pleasure. It has taken me so long to get converted. It is all different now . I can't help it but for me just to get free from the remnant doctrine meant such freedom that made me a slave to Jesus Christ. Praise God!

"My situation is such that I cannot leave the church, my son is an orthodox adventist and very sincere. He urged me to read an adventist book about 1844 and was talking like all those brainwashed do. I couldn't take it any more so I quoted the verse from Hebrew that Jesus after his ascension is in the Most Holy place in heaven because wherever God is there is the Most Holy place. He suspects I don't believe everything the way I should and so he cried and sobbed saying it is so crucial to believe all this. He really is very sincere about all this and believes the adv. have 100% truth. I cried myself to sleep a few nights after they left because they are such sincere people and so good to us. He phoned me later to tell me that it wasn't the M H.Place in Heb.9 12 so I found all the verses Lev. Heb. etc. and faxed it to him. He never mentioned it after, but I think I will receive a visit when we finally after a year and half will have a pastor. It is getting pretty dead in the adv. churches around here. I don't know what it is going to happen because I can't believe the old way anymore, so they might dis-fellowship me who knows. I just can't believe it anymore. The problem is , my husband is not so much convinced of all of it either but he gets very upset when somebody touches the sabbath maybe because he went through a lot because of it. So I am just very alone with this, except my oldest son he is very open minded but tied to all this too. The church they go to is falling apart too and they are desperate and don't know what to do. It seem that all of the churches are like that all over. Sorry for all this writing I am hoping you would read. As you can guess I enjoy typing. So here I am, not knowing what next. I can't upset my husband and family and cause them grief or problems. I just feel so incredibly alone. I am trying to find somebody to talk to around here, but there is none. My husband doesn't really know about all this. It is my personal searching to come to peace. I thank you for your email and understanding. Don't feel that you are obligated to answer. I just needed someone to listen to me. If this is really a cult as it seems what do I do? How am I going to talk about it to my husband - the bad part is he doesn't read much is not a reader and is set in his ways. On the contrary I am a bookworm and reading is my passion. So just pray for me, if you want to send me some study or anything I would appreciate it. I would love to talk to you but it would have to be when nobody is home.

"The more I study the Word, the more I want to study the Word. Fascinating, isn't it?

I was just doing some research over the last two nights on the apocrypha. I had mentioned Maccabees in passing to one of my wife's friends, and she responded that God's Word is God's Word, and that God, not man, picked what would be included and what would be left out of the Bible. She went a little further with some interesting SDA history -- according to her, Martin Luther did the first English translation of the Bible, and this was used by Guttenburg during the first printing. She was way off on those ones (Wycliffe, first complete English translation, Guttenburg printed Latin before Luther was born) but I let them slide. Having a background in archaeology, and an interest in Biblical archaeology, I had read the Maccabean books, and also read the historical record. The general concensus amongst the Jewish people is that Daniel's prophecy about the 2300 evening and morning sacrifices was fulfilled by the rededication of the temple after being desicrated. I knew that before becoming an adventist, so always had great problems with the 2300 day / year stuff. Tonight, when reading, I come across a little verse that I had read numerous times, but suddenly the meaning of it became clear when I was reading some information about Hanukkah in which the verse was mentioned. In John 10:22, Jesus celebrates the feast of dedication in the winter. According to Strong's Translation, the Greek word egkainia could be better translated as renewal, or rededication. This is the Festival of Lights, or Hanukkah -- the celebration of the success of the Maccabean revolt and the cleansing of the temple. This means, to my little brain, that Jesus accepted the rededication, and hence most likely accepted that the prophecy of Daniel had been fulfilled. I would be interested in your thoughts on this.

"Hello, I am a teacher at an SDA academy. I have grown up an SDA and attended Adventist schools. This morning I had a student come into my office and ask me to look at your site. After reading through it I have a few thoughts. Unfortunately SDAs are, I think, subject to more abuse from fundamental Christians within the US than probably any other religion. The reason for this is because we have a few doctrines that are in stark contrast to most mainstream Christian religions; the Sabbath being the most often cited. Because of this I have become somewhat jaded to websites like yours, and while I am open-minded I am also secure enough in my beliefs that I no longer attempt to argue somebody into a corner, or myself out of one. Instead I spend class time every day attempting to reveal the character of Christ and live my life in a way that I hope sets a Christ-like example. All of my colleagues do the same. This has been true for the majority of my past colleagues, my past teachers - academy and college, and I believe that my students reflect this example. Is the SDA church perfect? No way. Do I think the SDA church is the remnant church? No, but I don't think that it will come from any current denomination either. I may sound heretical for an SDA, and certainly I am careful in the views I share with my students (for reasons I will explain below), but my point is that most SDAs I have come into contact with in my life have not been legalistic EGW fanatics. Admittedly there was a generation of those people out there when I was a kid (I am 31) but I think the majority of them are no longer a driving force in the church. Those people that have verbally attacked you and called you names are simply NOT living the life Christ would have us live; I am ashamed to associate myself with them. The reasons I am careful about the views I share with my students are quite simple actually. Number one, young people of any persuasion are vulnerable to the seeds of rebellion, regardless of what its nature might be. They won't take out the trash, be quiet in class, call if they are coming home late, etc. I simply do not want to tamper with the rebellious aspect of their nature when we are dealing with such an important aspect of their eternity. The logical part of their mind has not yet developed and rather than exposing them to deep theological issues I would rather have them fall in love with Jesus. Ultimately, this is why I have written any response to your email at all. It saddens that so many people are busy attacking other Christians rather than spending time saving non-believers. I don't think other Christians are "agents of Satan" but one would question whether you support that kind of rhetoric against SDAs! When my students come to me asking me to explain all this stuff I really have no choice but to explain it the way I believe it. This is not wrong though. Why should I be ashamed to explain what I believe? You are doing this as well, and so is every denomination on the face of the Earth, if they didn't think they were "right" they simply wouldn't exist as a church. It is very natural for SDAs to claim to have the Truth. Finally, it amuses and disheartens me that we are still identified by some as a cult. The SDA church is a mainstream Christian church, simple as that. We have 11 million members worldwide and are one of the fastest growing churches in the world. There are missionaries all over the world from many different denominations. I support their efforts, SDA or not. Most people I know support their efforts as well. Anyone who devotes his or her life leading others to Christ is worthy of my admiration. Unfortunately websites that condemn other Christians and attack their beliefs don't fall into that category and certainly there are SDA's who waste their time doing this as well. I have heard SDAs attack Mormon founder Joseph Smith and certainly he was a questionable character. BUT, do you know a church today that is more sincere, upstanding, full of integrity, and willing to follow God's path? Certainly I don't, not SDAs, not Catholics, not Baptists, not nobody! We can all learn from each other and benefit from each other's beliefs rather than attempt to tear each other down. My apologies for this being so long. Looking forward to your response.

Kristopher Erskine
William B Higgins Dept. of History,
Union Springs Academy
www.unionsprings.org (P) 315.889.5314 EX 34 (F) 315.889.7188"

first, let me thank you for your openness and ability to dialogue in the spirit of Christ (very rare among adventists who feel that their belief system is threatened). Allow me a short response.

Let me say that I have no quarrel with non-cultic evangelical adventism. However, you seem to deny the sad fact that orthodox cultic egw-oriented adventism is alive and well within your denomination. I and many others know that it exists, because we came out of it. To deny it is to become dishonest in the face of facts and broken lives that cry out unhealed as a result of abuse received at the hands of your church.

The SDA church is not "a mainstream Christian church", simple as that. Are some of its members mainstream christians? Sure. Is the denomination as a whole "a mainstream Christian church"? You must be joking! As an x-sda, I know all too well and can compare.

Should we attack other christian churches as adventists have done for so long and so consistently? Absolutely not.

Should we attack cultic doctrinal systems (such as orthodox adventism) that harm and enslave people? You bet!

I recommend to you reading some of the stories on this web site and other web sites of enslavement, hurt, fear, brokeness, legalism, and cultic bondage experienced as a result of orthodox cultic adventism.

Perhaps then you will start to comprehend why there is a need for web sites like mine.

My name is Brian Campbell. I am an a African American Christian apologist. First let me congratulate you on your web-site, it by far , contains the most complete analysis of SDA cultic teachings. On to business. I am putting together a apologetics conference for this fall. I would like to invite you if :1. you can provide a statement of faith (perhaps I missed it on your site) and 2.your speaking fees. 3.I suppose this will all be futile if you don't speak at seminars. I am currently working on my first book of Christian apologetics geared at those cults and ideologies that affect African Americans. I have spoken to James White, Ron Rhodes etc... at conferences and asked the question "Why is it that apologist steer away from pointing out racist policies concerning cults?" Which brings me to the point . Are there any teachings of the SDA that were or are racist?

My name is Loren Venter and I live in Johannesburg, South Africa. I was brought up SDA, went to Church School, my father & Grandfather were SDA pastors, (My dad's in a retiement home now.) But praise be to God and the Internet, I've come to the knowledge of the errors of that cult and have left. In my quest for a new spiritual home, I've decided to join a cell group in a home worship situation. This way one gets to participate more in the Worship, and not just be 'entertained'. I thought you might want to check out a great Christian site from Australia, that has a sister site that is a Bible College. I've found that they're very gospel orientated, and they have many free non-denominational Bible studies available. If you think they're good, you might want to promote them on your web page as a good study centre for ex-SDA's.

"Show me the money. I know a catholic infiltrator when I hear one, pitifully excuses. If you say something you also should be honest enough to defend the same in public. You can say anything, it worth nothing, unless it is say on EQUAL TIME. You are deceiving many behind your web-site. I know the word DEBATE scares you to death.

Thank you for your unbiased correspondence

"Thank you very much for your unbiased correspondence! I appreciate your kindness......as you know, not all Christians are kind all the time. It is a wonderful thing to find such wonderful Christians as yourselves. I do like the KJV and the NKJV. The NIV is a good translation as well and it often helps to compare versus between these two translations. Only when Christians put away their old-aged biases against other denominations and other Christians can we have influence for Christ. That is not to say to endorse sin and the turning away from God! I am not against Baptists by any means, I have been to many fine Baptist Churches. It is some of the dress codes (suit and tie only) that I have had a problem with. I also ran into conflicts when I believed in fellowship with other Christians of different denominations. There was difficulty in the unpardonable sin (defined as divorce in the Baptist Church). These poor devastated people were treated as second class Christians, many went through divorces before they were saved, and many divorces were completely out of circumstances that one or the other party could not control. For instance, if you were a POW in Vietnam for five years and your spouse left you, it is completely out of your hands. How can that be someone's fault??? The person would be kept out of ministry according to the Baptist doctrine this person could never enter the Pastorate. I find this wrong!